binky wrote:Earlier in the show Brandon danced back-to-back, also with Kayla. Why in the hell does Brandon have to dance back-to-back? Seriously, it's going to happened when you only have four dancers and they have to dance so many times.
why in the hell does Evan have to dance back-to-back??? Seriously, this is cracking me up...
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SYTYCD5 Finale Performances 08/05/09
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 Teviko |
#21 | |||
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Posts: 1047 08/06/09 09:39 AM Community Moderator |
"A male is a male. A man is a male that is malier." - My Son, Age 13 |
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Teviko |
#22 | |||
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Posts: 1048 08/06/09 09:47 AM Community Moderator |
binky wrote:You do realize, Binky, that your over the top praise of Evan and extreme criticism of some of the other dances sounds exactly like what you are accusing the judges on the show of doing in regards to Brandon, Kayla and Evan? Besides, I thought Jeanine was one of your favorites and you wanted to see her win if it was a girl who won? "A male is a male. A man is a male that is malier." - My Son, Age 13 |
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Ocean923 |
#23 | |||
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Posts: 11 08/06/09 09:53 AM |
Actually Twokatts I completely agree with Binky - The judges have been down on Evan for several weeks. I chat about this show with several people and we all
agree that it's always negative when Evan dances. Brandon and Kayla number was out of sync did the judges mention that - heck no. Why oh why do they give
Brandon and Kayla a Broadway number, why didn't Evan dance that number? It has been that way all season long. While I agree with Binky comments, I will
watch this show again. I'm sure Evan will be 4th - Personally I voted for Jeanine but several of my friends voted for Evan.
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Teviko |
#24 | |||
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Posts: 1049 08/06/09 10:09 AM Community Moderator |
Just remember that despite the comments of the Judges regarding Evan, he is the only dancer this season who has not been in the bottom four (that we
know of). So, Binky, while you don't like agree with or like the judge's comments, the thought that those comments will hurt Evan when it comes to the
voting simply hasn't proven itself to be true. In the past, dancers with high praise have ended up on the chopping block, so I would think in some sick
way that you would encourage the criticism.
That being said, I have to agree with the judges. I could handle anyone but Evan winning this competition. Brandon, Kayla and Jeanine are simply more superior dancers than Evan. He never really grabbed hold of the other styles, which is okay. His love is Broadway. You can be sure he'll have a job in musicals when the tour is over. I believe he got out of the show what he wanted/needed. I still feel he should never have gotten into the top 10 and believe he got this far because his personality over shone his dancing shortcomings. People were willing to forgive him because they genuinely liked the guy. I understand it's "favorite dancer" and personality plays a lot into that, but it is a dancing show and I feel the dancing should come first, personality second. Binky has referred to AI to make the point about "not best, but favorite," but if I recall (and Binky can correct me on this) she's had criticism in the past of American Idol for precisely that reason, that favorites were getting through when clearly others had more talent. I feel the same way about SYTYCD. I'm still rooting for Kayla, but I wouldn't be upset if it is Jeanine or Brandon. As for Evan, he can just shrug his shoulders and give that silly grin one last time (that is his best move, after all) and walk off to his career on Broadway. "A male is a male. A man is a male that is malier." - My Son, Age 13 |
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twokaTTs |
#25 | |||
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Posts: 29 09/03/62 03:49 PM Rookie Member |
Ocean923, I didn't say that the judges haven't been down on Evan the past weeks. They HAVE been, and in my opinion for very good reason. He hasn't
been able to break out of his nice-guy persona, and has not shown the same growth and adaptability that the rest of the dancers have. Being down on a dancer is
way different than being unfair. Just because they didn't point out some flaw or other in one of the others' dances does not mean they are being unfair
to Evan for pointing his out- it just means the maybe the flaws of the others pale in comparison to their strengths, whereas in Evan's case they don't,
in their opinion. Sometimes, also, as in possibly the case with Mia Michaels and Brandon, criticism is offered to make a particular performer work
harder because the teacher has recognized that is what that person needs to improve (believe me, I know that one only too well from personal experience).
Again, I don't know exactly what their motives were for Evan, but like you, disagreement with judges' comments is definitely not going to make me stop
watching a show.
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binky |
#26 | |||
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Posts: 11519 08/06/09 11:57 AM Community Moderator |
Teviko wrote: After reading through the comments, I see I need to be more specific, so I'll try to do so now for clarification.... Let's take AI, even though the singers don't all do the same song, they are at least compared doing the same genre, which I assume is the reason for theme weeks. Yea, there is some variation, but not a ton usually, and the contestants themselves have a little more control because they have the option of choosing their song within a given genre. So, how do you compare the power and passion of the Paso Double to something like the fun upbeat jive? That's more what I was trying to say... they should do theme weeks where they compare all of the dancers in the same styles against each other.... too many times this season, and VERY CLEARLY last night, the dances are slanted toward a particular contestant or group. No way in hell would they have been able to say Brandon outshone Evan had they been paired doing a Broadway number, although I guarantee they would have tried (LOL) I understand they need to be able to do a variety of styles, and yes, I strongly disagree with the judges saying Evan hasn't grown, met the challenges, even exceeded the others, this is where the personal preferences come in and things are conveniently seen and not seen depending on which contestant is involved (just like on AI and what is conveniently heard or not heard). 
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binky |
#27 | |||
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Posts: 11520 08/06/09 12:04 PM Community Moderator |
Teviko wrote: In a way right, as did Kayla at the end, but both Kayla and Brandon had the benefit of a commercial break
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binky |
#28 | |||
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Posts: 11521 08/06/09 12:10 PM Community Moderator |
Teviko wrote: I have had no over the top praise nor extreme criticism IMO. All I have repeatedly said was that Evan was in no way as bad as the judges tried to make it sound, and that I love to watch him because of his personality and what he puts into the routine. I don't see the mistakes they supposedly do because I enjoy him and his connection to the audience and the pieces he is performing. Nor have I denied Brandon's technical ability, however, in no way, shape, or form, does he have the personality or connection with the audience or the pieces he does that Evan has. Again, my opinion, but I wouldn't call it over the top or extreme. Yes, I hope it's Jeanine who walks away with the prize. As much as I love and enjoy Evan, I fear that while Broadway will gobble him up in a heartbeat, the judges involved in the show would never accept him winning.
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binky |
#29 | |||
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Posts: 11522 08/06/09 12:14 PM Community Moderator |
Ocean923 wrote: Thank you Ocean, you reminded me of a comment I specifically left out because I knew it would come of as sour grapes... but I know EXACTLY what you are talking about. When Brandon and Kayla were supposed to be doing in sync spins, brandon was going faster than Kayla, and he actually did extra, because Kayla came out of the spins and stopped before he did. I've rewatched it a few times now to make sure it wasn't my imagination.
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Teviko |
#30 | |||
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Posts: 1050 08/06/09 12:24 PM Community Moderator |
Just looked back at the show and Evan also had a commercial between his solo and his dance with Kayla. Also, and I'm not sure about this, is the
performance show live? Is it possible that they actually have more time between numbers than we actually see? It might be live, I just don't recall.
I agree with your clarification on the dance styles. I think it would be a better comparison if the dancers danced the same style each week. Even on Dancing with the Stars don't they usually feature two different styles each week, and the couples that don't dance one usually have to dance the other later in the season? However, from a viewer standpoint, that would be great if it's a week I like the style but I would totally tune out if I didn't. "A male is a male. A man is a male that is malier." - My Son, Age 13 |
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binky |
#31 | |||
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Posts: 11523 08/06/09 12:27 PM Community Moderator |
Teviko wrote: We are just going to have to respectfully agree to disagree on Evan. I think he HAS pulled off everything thrown at him and exceeded my expectations as well as his expectations for himself in doing dances he'd never done before and being the shortest guy out there to boot. In the comparison with AI, I agree with the statement that I've had the same criticism, but the funny thing is, it's almost the reverse of this show! LOL Here, the judges have repeatedly said it is America's favorite dancer, yet they push their agenda for who they feel are the best technical dancers, while not seeing any of their mistakes. On AI, they try to continuously say it's a singing competition, while pushing their agenda for their personal favorites, and not hearing any of the mistakes, LOL. Kayla to me is the equivalent of Carrie Underwood during her stint on AI. Carrie was deemed the fembot because of her deer in the headlights look and lack of stage presence or performance ability, while singing like a dream. Kayla certainly is an extremely gifted dancer, but for me, and I assume others since she's been in the bottom several times, there's no personality or connection. despite what Nigel said, I disagree that she showed anymore personality last night than she has in the past. She seems to be a method actor on top of a dancer. In the end, I think you have to have balance of both, which is why I think Jeanine and Evan do much more for me than Brandon and Kayla.
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twokaTTs |
#32 | |||
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Posts: 30 08/06/09 12:40 PM Rookie Member |
But getting out of sync is a minor mistake that could happen to any dancers at any time, particularly in a competition situation where they have had so little
time to prepare. The judges' comments/criticisms about Evan have been more all-encompassing than that (the whole picture). There have also been
times that Evan made similar minor mistakes that weren't brought up. As you said, we tend to see what we want to see, and ignore what what we don't,
and have our own interpretations about whether that is fair, or justified, or not. It doesn't make anyone right or wrong.
Kayla and Brandon had the benefit of a (short?) commercial break, but did Evan have the benefit of a pretaped interview? I don't remember, but he did obviously have time to change costumes and prepare. I don't think it matters in the least, and I don't think it affected his performance. I think it might be tough for them to have theme weeks; for the top twenty dancers, they would then have to bring in TEN different choreographers- and then there would be a discussion about who got the best/worst choreographer! There was one season when they all DID do the same dance in one show- does anyone remember that... they were all dressed in white, it was something kind of political? It was pretty boring.
Last Edited By: twokaTTs 08/06/09 12:48 PM.
Edited 1 time.
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Teviko |
#33 | |||
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Posts: 1051 08/06/09 01:22 PM Community Moderator |
I believe that was just one of the group numbers. Hopie would know better.
I posted this on the previous page, but in case you don't see it I looked back and saw that Evan had a commercial break before his couple number with Kayla. "A male is a male. A man is a male that is malier." - My Son, Age 13 |
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jagger |
#34 | |||
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Posts: 3925 08/06/09 01:41 PM Community Moderator |
I missed the show last night, looks like same stuff as last week. Judges pimping there favorites and bashing the ones they don't want to win. LOL
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CherryPie |
#35 | |||
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Posts: 1197 08/06/09 01:43 PM My fantasy lover. |
I can't remember what season it was (I'm thinking season 3), but the top 10 all did the exact same solo to "Waiting on the World to Change"
which ended with a peace sign. Some viewers complained that it was anti-war and in turn anti-troops. That criticism was stupid IMO. However, listening to
the same clip of music 10 times got pretty old. Plus, I don't think you can compare dancers that way.
Brandon was awesome last night, but I think Jeanine stole the show. I think Kayla has no chance on winning, but with Evan's strong fanbase along with Jeanine and Brandon's beyond awesome performances it could be any of them. |
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hopie |
#36 | |||
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Posts: 36 08/06/09 01:44 PM |
twokaTTs wrote:Well said, twokaTTs. There are some cases in life (like in most criminal trials and things of that nature) where there is a clear right and wrong, fair and unfair, justice or lack of justice. But in talent competitions, especially where personality/charisma is a factor in the judging, opinions will abound without there really being a right or wrong. Personally, I agree with most of what the judges said. Most, not all. I do think that Evan has grown; who'd have thought the guy could do a decent Hip Hop eight weeks ago? Probably not even Evan himself!! However, I think the judges are correct and just when they comment that Evan "holds his own" when dancing with the others as, in my opinion, that is a pretty high compliment for someone who probably shouldn't have made it to the Top 4. Like some others here, I will be happy with any of the remaining contestants winning the title except for Evan. Not to compare him to AI's Jasmine Trias, because Evan's dancing is way better than Jasmine's voice, but had Jasmine won her season of AI (instead of taking third), it would've seemed like a travesty. Jasmine was very sweet, cute, and had a winning smile, but her voice was not of American Idol caliber. What got her to third place was the fact that practically everyone from her home state of Hawaii was voting for her... didn't really matter that she didn't have the best voice. Now with Evan, I can see his appeal to some folks; he's entertaining. Still, I have to wonder how the least technically-adept dancer from the Top 6, 8, or maybe even Top 10 made it to the Top 4. Don't get me wrong... I don't begrudge his being here. I just believe that his winning would be unthinkable. As for the judges' biases, I believe they're entitled to their opinions and favorites just like us. Though they do comment on personality here and there, I think twokaTTs is correct that they're there mainly to critique the overall performance from a technical viewpoint. As for them pointing out repeats from the auditions, I don't know why they pointed out Evan's and not Brandon's. Personally, I don't have a problem with contestants bringing back a choreographed solo that we haven't seen in many weeks if it is tried and true. After all, this is the time to bring out your big guns if you got 'em! But I do think the judges shouldn't have commented on Evan's solo being a repeat if they weren't going to offer the same comment to Brandon. As for Brandon's music, I loved it... the more dramatic, the better! The one time that all the SYTYCD contestants did the same choreographed routine, as a solo, was in season three. Wade Robson had each of the dancers dress in all white and do a contemporary routine to John Mayer's "Waiting On the World To Change" (it was an anti-war routine). Each contestant picked a word to wear on their outfit - "Peace", "Hope", "Love", "Justice", etc. Each of the Top 10 did this same routine, and it was a great way to see their individual styles and interpretations, though to be honest it got kind of old after about five or six dancers had performed. |
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twokaTTs |
#37 | |||
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Posts: 31 08/06/09 02:08 PM Rookie Member |
You've got a good memory, Hopie! Yes, that was the one I was thinking of. It was a good idea to try, I guess, but in the end not all that effective.
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